Try again…

2 Comments

1. Tom Shafer says:

   April 16, 2013 at 1:36 pm

   Dan,
   Since you are a professed atheist, I cannot convince you to accept doctrine from a source in which you don’t believe. I can only tell you how a Christian should understand God’s standards if they treat the bible as the authority in their lives [many do not]. I wrote the “dissertation” below many months ago. Following it, I have some current thoughts on the public debate about gay marriage which may or may not surprise you.

   +++++++++++++++
   I want to first provide a basis of how Christianity handles the issue of gay marriage.

   Leviticus 18 – Mosaic Law Regarding Unlawful Sexual Relations

   http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+18&version=NIV

   1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘I am the LORD your God. 3 You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. 4 You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the LORD your God. 5 Keep my decrees and laws, for the person who obeys them will live by them. I am the LORD.
   …

   22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.
   …

   29 “‘Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God.’”

   ——————

   One of the arguments about Old Testament law is that it was contextual. Many of the patriarchs had multiple wives, yet plural marriage is against the law now. “Slaves” were a normal part of societal structure then, yet are now against the law now. Thus, by extension any Old Testament prohibition against same-sex marriage might be considered contextual. However, every other prohibition listed in Leviticus 18 is still considered an anathema to good conduct in our society today (for practical, cultural, and “we feel it in our conscience” reasons). So if we are to throw out the prohibition against same-sex marriage, must we also throw out the ban against sex between brother and sister, with a son’s daughter, with an animal or sacrificing our sons to Molec?

   ——————-

   Jesus and New Testament Law

   Some say that because Jesus never explicitly discussed gay marriage that He and New Testament law permits same-sex marriage.

   Matthew 5 – The Sermon on the Mount

   Jesus said: 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.”

   This is key. While it is true that the New Testament is about our relationship with God under ‘The New Covenant’, it does not mean that Old Testament Law (Mosaic Law) was overturned. The New Covenant is about the introduction of The Holy Spirit as a “counselor” that writes the law on our hearts (Romans 2:14-15, Hebrews 10:16), and of course salvation through faith and God’s unmerited grace.

   The point is, we are not to abandon Mosaic law just because God’s grace gives us a way out.

   It is argued that Jesus’ predominant teaching was about ‘loving our neighbor’. While this is true, and we are taught to “love the sinner yet hate the sin”, Jesus said on this matter when asked “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

   Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22:36-40)

   We show our love for God by honoring His laws

   ————————

   Along with this argument that Jesus never explicitly mentioned gay marriage (so it must be ok), is that prohibitions against gay marriage were only mentioned in the New Testament by individuals such as The Apostle Paul which somehow defames and delegitimizes his importance. The answer to this is two-fold.

   Acts 15 – The Council at Jerusalem

   After the new churches were established in such places as Antioch and Ephesus, the Jewish Christian leaders met in Jerusalem to establish a minimum set of guidelines by which the new gentile converts should live. This was done primarily because Peter pointed out that 8 “God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

   The Council agreed with Peter that it was unnecessary and counter-productive to require the new churches to practice all of the laws of the Torah, but they did provide this minimum set of laws by way of a letter carried to Antioch by Barnabas and Paul:

   “28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.”

   Keep in mind that at this time, no scripture existed for divine and practical guidance as we have now with the Old and New Testament in print. Further, much of the New Testament with its multiple admonitions against sexual impurity (immorality) had yet to be written. So in a way, this instruction from the Council to the new churches implied all of the prohibitions originally defined in Leviticus 18 as critical elements of Mosaic Law.

   The other part of this answer is that it is widely accepted and acknowledged that Paul as well as other Apostles who wrote the bulk of the New Testament (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) were writing under divine inspiration and therefore speak for God. I acknowledge that this last point is likely the most abstract argument and dismissible unless one believes through faith. Yet the Apostle Paul is probably the single-most important individual of the early church in defining and refining was is basic Christian doctrine today.

   +++++++++++++++

   I have been convinced, and find it sound reasoning that government should get out of the business of defining what is legal marriage. The argument is, that if I am willing to use government to enforce my vision of morality, then it opens the door to someone else to also use government to enforce their vision of morality, which may be an affront to me. Fine. My opinion now is that gay people should be allowed to marry. That’s my Libertarian perspective.
   But I posed this question to a gay acquaintance of mine: “If government got completely out of the business of defining what is legal marriage, so that you could marry your partner in a civil ceremony, would you be ok if churches and other religious organizations continued to refuse to conduct marriage ceremonies for gay couples?” His answer was no. They should be required [coerced by rule of law] to conduct gay marriages.
   And that there makes my point. Much of the Christian, religious right, conservative, whatever you wish to name it, community is baulking at a legal recognition of gay marriage because they fear it is one more step in the process of the outright overturn of Judeo-Christian values. Because we are a plural society, people can choose to be religious or not, practice any of many different faiths, be agnostic, or atheist. But still, the majority of people in this country profess to be Christians believing in salvation by God’s grace through faith, or are cultural Christians which means they are guided by Judeo-Christian values. I think some gay people believe living alongside either is a silent indictment of their lifestyle and they want to remove any pretense.

   As for the cartoon above, and the statement about Solomon, or a man marrying a woman he raped, the point to keep in mind is that every important figure in Biblical history, except Jesus himself, broke God’s laws at one time or another. Some much worse than others. The Apostle Paul wrote more than half of the New Testament, but we know he was often a self-righteous prig. We’re not supposed to hold up any of these people as moral templates. Only Jesus Christ and God’s word.

   If you care to comment directly, you can email me at thomas@shafercejna.com

   Reply
   1. Dan says:

      May 28, 2013 at 3:48 am

      Thanks for that, Tom. I appreciate your taking the time to comment. I also appreciate your view on the government’s position on marriage. Also, possibly like you, I vehemently disagree with your gay friend’s position about the church’s autonomy regarding performing marriage ceremonies. I think mandating that churches perform gay marriages would be ludicrous… and wrong.

      Anyway… thanks for commenting. Cheers!

      Reply

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